>> FUNDING FOR NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS PROVIDED BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

>> Gene: THIS WEEK ON NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS, SUSPECT IN CUSTODY.

REACTION TO THE STRING OF SHOTS FIRED AND INCIDENTS INVOLVING LAWMAKERS AS OUR STATE LEADERS HEAD BACK TO WORK IN SANTA FE.

AND -- >> Goodbody: WE ARE OFF TO LESS THAN WHAT WOULD BE TYPICAL FOR THIS TIME OF YEAR WHICH DOES NOT NECESSARILY BODE WELL FOR WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE SPRING AND SUMMER.

>> Gene: WITH TIME TO TURN THINGS AROUND OUR SPRING WATER FORECAST IS ONCE AGAIN COMING IN BELOW AVERAGE.

NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS STARTS NOW.

THANKS FOR JOINING THUS WEEK.

I AM YOUR HOST, GENE GRANT.

AFTER A YEAR WHERE WE SAW THE RIO GRANDE RUN DRY, WE ARE LOOKING AHEAD TO WHAT WE CAN EXPECT ONCE TEMPERATURES CHANGE.

IN ABOUT 15 MINUTES OUR LAND SENIOR PRODUCER LAURA PASKUS TALKS WITH TWO WATER EXPERTS ABOUT THE CURRENT CONDITIONS AND WHAT THEY MEAN FOR WATER SUPPLY COME SPRING.

NEW DATA FROM THE STATE SHOWS A CONTINUED DROP IN PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT.

THAT INCLUDES NEW MEXICO'S LARGEST DISTRICT RIGHT HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE WITH APS.

IN ABOUT 25 MINUTES I'LL ASK THE LINE OPINION PANEL WHAT DISTRICTS CAN DO TO TURN THAT TREND AROUND.

BUT WE START WITH THE INVESTIGATION INTO SHOTS FIRED AT THE HOMES OR OFFICES OF SIX NEW MEXICO LAWMAKERS.

THOSE INCIDENTS SPAN THE LAST TWO MONTHS INCLUDING SHOTS FIRED OUTSIDE THE HOME OF REPRESENTATIVE JAVIER MARTINEZ, THE NEXT SPEAKER OF THE STATE HOUSE.

NOW, A SUSPECT HAS BEEN ARRESTED BUT IT COULD STILL BE ON THE MINDS OF LAWMAKERS AS THEY GET READY TO START THE SESSION.

LET'S GET TO THE LINE.

>> Gene: LET'S WELCOME IN OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS FOR THE WEEK.

WE ARE JOINED BY ATTORNEY LAURA SANCHEZ.

SHE IS ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE ON.

DAVE MULRYAN, PRESIDENT OF MULRYAN NASH ADVERTISING IS WITH IS AND FORMER STATE REPRESENTATIVE, DANIEL FOLEY.

THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE.

APPRECIATE IT.

A SUSPECT HAS BEEN ARRESTED, GUYS, TIED TO AT LEAST ONE OF A STRING OF SHOTS-FIRED INCIDENTS NEAR THE HOMES AND OFFICES OF LAWMAKERS.

BUT, TO THIS POINT, AS WE TAPE THIS ON THURSDAY, MIDDAY, THAT SUSPECT HASN'T BEEN CHARGED IN ANY OF THOSE CASES.

SO, LAURA, LET ME ASK YOU THIS TO START OFF.

HOW DOES IT IMPACT THE ATMOSPHERE HEADING INTO THE GOVERNOR'S STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS TUESDAY AND CARRY OVER TO THE REST OF THE SESSION?

ANY CONCERN THERE?

SHOULD WE BE CONCERNED?

>> Laura: I THINK IT DOES CARRY OVER.

I THINK THERE IS GOING TO BE A HEIGHTENED LEVEL OF AWARENESS FOR SURE ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

I THINK THAT, FOR ONE, LIKE THEY HAVE ALREADY HAD METAL DETECTORS AT ENTRANCES.

YOU ALREADY HAVE TO GO THROUGH CERTAIN ENTRANCES AND BE ABLE TO BASICALLY HAVE TO GET WANDED IF YOU DON'T PASS THROUGH THE MACHINE.

AND SO I THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO SEE A LOT MORE OF THAT, MORE SCRUTINY, SO PROBABLY LONGER LINES.

THAT IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT PRECAUTION.

AND ONE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN TAKEN YEARS AGO BECAUSE IT IS OPEN OTHERWISE TO ANYBODY WHO CAN WALK IN.

SO THAT IS A PROBLEM AND I KNOW THAT FOR A LOT OF LEGISLATORS, NOT JUST FOR THE ONES THAT WERE TARGETED, BUT OTHERS, THEY HAVE HAD CONCERNS ABOUT THEIR PUBLIC INFORMATION -- OR INFORMATION, HOME ADDRESS AND SO FORTH, BEING UP ON THE WEBSITE FOR A LONG TIME.

SO IT IS GREAT THEY ARE FINALLY TAKING THAT DOWN AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO TRY TO PROTECT PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY ARE REALLY JUST TRYING TO DO THEIR JOB AND THIS IS A SERIOUS SAFETY CONCERN, I THINK, FOR EVERYBODY.

>> Gene: DANIEL, OBVIOUSLY YOU'RE OUR ELECTED PERSON HERE ON THE PANEL THIS WEEK.

I AM CURIOUS HOW THIS ALL SORT OF HITS YOU AND SPECIFICALLY, ARE YOU THINKING THAT SHOULD THE GOVERNOR ADDRESS THIS SITUATION IN HER STATE OF THE STATE ADDRESS?

CURIOUS YOUR OPINION ON THAT.

>> Dan: NO, I THINK THE MORE ATTENTION YOU GIVE THESE ACTIONS THE MORE CRAZY PEOPLE WANT TO TRY TO GET ATTENTION.

THAT IS ONE OF THE PROBLEMS.

I THINK -- I MEAN, LOOK, THERE IS A CULMINATION OF PROBLEMS HERE.

ONE, WE HAVE AN ABSOLUTELY OUT OF HAND CRIME PROBLEM IN THE ALBUQUERQUE AREA.

IT HAS BEEN GOING THAT WAY FOR QUITE A WHILE.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK THIS IS JUST A TALE OF THE TIMES.

WHEN I WAS IN, OUR INFORMATION WAS PUBLIC.

OUR HOME ADDRESSES AND PHONE NUMBERS.

I REMEMBER MY WIFE GOT A DEATH THREAT.

I GOT A DEATH THREAT.

YOU JUST KEEP GOING ON.

I REMEMBER SOMEHOW SOME GUY FROM JAIL GOT MY HOME NUMBER AND WAS CALLING MY HOUSE WHEN I WAS GONE.

I WOUND UP GETTING A DEATH THREAT ONCE AND WOUND UP WITH SECURITY FOR A WHILE.

WHAT DOESN'T HELP, THOUGH, IS THE SECRECY BEHIND WE HAVE SOMEONE THAT IS A SUSPECT POSSIBLY IN CUSTODY.

I MEAN, I THINK THE THING THAT NIPS THIS STUFF IN THE BUTT RIGHT AWAY IS WHEN THEY ARE SWIFT, THERE IS ACTION AND TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND DELIBERATE WITH THEIR ACTIONS.

WHEN THERE IS THIS VEIL OF SECRECY THAT WE HAVE A PERSON OF INTEREST, WE ARE NOT SURE WHAT WE ARE DOING, I MEAN, IT CAN'T BE THAT DIFFICULT TO TRACK DOWN PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THIS TYPE OF A CRIME IN ALBUQUERQUE IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT TRACKING THEM DOWN.

I MEAN, THEY ARE TAKING THE RIGHT STEPS NOW.

THE RIGHT STEPS ARE THEY ARE PROVIDING SECURITY.

THERE IS SECURITY AT THE HOMES AND WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IS THAT WE ARE -- THEY ARE GOING EVENTUALLY GOING TO GET SOMEBODY OR FIGURE SOMETHING OUT.

BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, I THINK, CLOSING DOWN THE CAPITOL AND TAKING OFF ALL THE PEOPLES' HOME INFORMATION, I MEAN, AT THE END OF THE DAY YOUR CHOOSING TO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE AND YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ABLE TO LET THE PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO YOU.

>> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU THIS, DANIEL.

DOES THE -- SHOTS WERE FIRED.

I MEAN I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND THAT IS ALL WELL AND GOOD WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT JUST USING VERBAL, YOU KNOW, ATTACK.

SHOTS WERE FIRED INTO PEOPLES' HOMES.

DOES THIS NOT CHANGE THE EQUATION FOR YOU?

>> Dan: I MEAN, GENE, IT IS A HORRIBLE THING THAT WAS DONE.

I UNDERSTAND THAT.

WHAT DO WE DO?

DO WE GO BACK TELLING INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE SERVING STAY HOME, DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO YOUR CONSTITUENTS, WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO THIS ANYMORE.

THERE NEEDS TO BE ACTION TO CATCH PEOPLE THAT HAVE DONE THIS AND SWIFT ACTION AND IT NEEDS TO BE DIRECT ACTION.

I THINK TALKING ABOUT IT, GIVING MORE PUBLICITY, EVERY TIME WE FIND OUT ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT COMMIT THESE CRIMES, OVERWHELMING THEY ARE SEEKING ONE THING.

PUBLICITY.

THEY ARE SEEKING PUBLICITY.

AND THE MORE THAT EVERYBODY GOES ON TALKING ABOUT THIS AND LETTING EVERYBODY KNOW WHAT THE STEPS THAT ARE BEING TAKEN AND HOW EVERYBODY IS WORRIED AND UPSET ABOUT IT, YOU'RE FEEDING THESE SICK PEOPLE THAT ARE DOING THESE TYPES CRIMES.

AND I THINK AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU JUST LET THESE GUYS GET ARRESTED, PROSECUTED, TO THE FULL EXTENT OF THE LAW, AND THAT IS WHAT IS GOING TO STOP THIS STUFF FROM HAPPENING.

>> Gene: DAVID DOES THIS CHANGE HOW LAWMAKERS APPROACH THEIR WORK?

USING THE WORD WORK HERE BECAUSE AS WE ALL KNOW THERE IS SOME MOVEMENT ON GUN REFORM LAWS, ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT THINGS THEY ARE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT DURING THE SESSION.

DOES THIS CHANGE THINGS?

>> Dave: WELL, YOU KNOW, DAVE HOFFMAN VIGIL PUT UP A FACEBOOK POST ADDRESS SPECIFICALLY THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE BEING TARGETED, THEIR HOUSES WERE BEING SHOT AT.

HER POINT WAS, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T GET PAID FOR IT OR WE GET PAID VERY LITTLE.

WE DO IT BECAUSE WE FEEL LIKE WE SHOULD DO IT, WE HAVE THE SKILLS TO DO IT, AND I THINK THERE IS A GOOD POINT BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS SORT OF A STRANGLING BUT LET'S SEE.

>> Gene: DAVE, I AM GOING TO INTERRUPT AND LET YOU DO YOUR THING.

YOU SEE THIS SCREEN IS BOUNCING AROUND A LITTLE BIT.

I WANT TO ASK LAURA, WHEN YOU COME BACK HERE.

LET ME ASK YOU THIS, WE CAN'T DANCE AROUND THE FACT THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN TARGETED HERE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN FOR A DEMOCRAT, IF YOU'RE AN ELECTED AND YOU'RE A DEMOCRAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NO SMALL THING.

>> Laura: RIGHT.

NO, I THINK THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT AND FOR DEMOCRATS, THERE IS DEFINITELY GOING TO BE AN INCREASED AMOUNT OF CONCERN.

THERE IS SPECULATION IF THERE IS AN ORGANIZED GROUP, ORGANIZED GROUP, ORGANIZED EFFORT, IS THIS JUST A LONE PERSON.

AND I THINK THAT GOES BACK TO WHAT DAN WAS SAYING WITH NOT HAVING ANY INFORMATION RIGHT NOW.

AND I MEAN I HOPE THAT WE -- I WANT TO TRUST IN LAW ENFORCEMENT THAT THEY ARE DOING WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IN NOT RELEASING INFORMATION BECAUSE PERHAPS THEY ARE TRYING TO MAKE A CONNECTION TO OTHER INDIVIDUALS AND THAT IS PROBABLY WHY THEY ARE NOT NAMING SOMEBODY.

I THINK IT IS BEST TO UNCOVER WHETHER THIS IS AN ORGANIZED GROUP, SOME SORT OF POLITICAL ATTACKS, SOME KIND OF, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER IT IS.

BUT THE FACT THEY HAVE ALL BEEN DEMOCRATS IS HUGELY CONCERNING, I THINK, FOR THE CAUCUS BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN REPUBLICANS ARE IMMUNE TO IT.

I THINK CONCERNS FROM BOTH SIDES ARE GOING TO EXIST AND ANYBODY COULD BE TARGETED.

WE SHOULD ALL OF US, INCLUDING OBVIOUSLY THE LEGISLATORS, BUT ALL OF US WHO ARE UP AT THE ROUNDHOUSE ON A REGULAR BASIS, OUR CITIZENS THAT GO UP THERE, THEY SHOULD BE SAFE, FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING UP THERE AND NOT FEAR THERE IS SOMEBODY LURKING IN THE BUSHES READY TO TAKE SOMEONE OUT.

THAT IS THE SORT OF FEAR I THINK WILL BE A REAL CONCERN THIS SESSION.

SO EVERYBODY HOPEFULLY WILL BE PATIENT WITH THE PROCEDURES THAT THEY HAVE SET IN PLACE TO BE ABLE TO ENSURE EVERYBODY'S SAFETY AND THAT WE ALL KIND OF STAY ALERTED TO ANYTHING THAT LOOKS OUT OF PLACE AND REPORT SOMETHING IF IT DOES LOOK OUT OF PLACE.

>> Gene: I AM GLAD YOU MENTIONED THAT.

>> Dan: WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT BEING ALL DEMOCRATS BUT THIS HAS ALL HAPPENED IN ALBUQUERQUE, HASN'T IT?

>> Gene: PRETTY MUCH.

>> Dan: YOU GOT ONE REPUBLICAN IN ALBUQUERQUE NOW.

THE LAW OF NUMBERS ARE THAT IT IS GOING TO BE SOMEBODY OF THE DEMOCRAT PARTY IN ALBUQUERQUE.

IF YOU DID THIS DOWN IN ROSWELL OR ALAMOGORDO, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE REPUBLICANS.

SO, YOU KNOW -- >> Gene: YOU'RE SAYING IT IS NOT A TARGETED THING FOR DEMOCRATS?

>> Dan: I AM NOT SAYING ANY OF THAT STUFF.

LISTEN TO ME, DON'T SAY ON THE SHOW, DAN YOU'RE SAYING THIS.

I AM NO INVESTIGATOR, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING.

WHAT I AM SAYING IS THAT BEFORE WE GO DOWN THE DEAL ABOUT THIS IS A TARGETED ATTACK ONLY, I AM OFFERING AN ALTERNATIVE OPINION THAT IT IS IN THE CITY OF ALBUQUERQUE WHICH IS 98% ELECTED DEMOCRATS RIGHT NOW.

BEFORE WE SAY IT IS AN ORGANIZED ATTACK AGAINST DEMOCRATS, IT MAY JUST BE A GEOGRAPHIC ATTACK IS WHAT I AM SAYING.

THAT DOESN'T MAKE THE ATTACK ANY BETTER.

IT DOESN'T MAKE IT OKAY.

I AM JUST SAYING I AM NOT SURE HOW MUCH OF THIS IS ORGANIZED POLITICAL -- >> Laura: I ALSO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IF IT IS SORT OF JUST THE LAW OF AVERAGES WOULD SAY THE FACT THERE ARE MORE DEMOCRATS IN THE CITY AND IT IS TO TARGET THEM, THAT RAISES THE CONCERN THAT WHEN EVERYBODY GETS TOGETHER IN SANTA FE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE AND EVERYBODY IS SORT OF UP THERE COLLECTIVELY, IT IS THAT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT TO KEEP PEOPLE SAFE BECAUSE THERE ARE A LOT MORE PEOPLE FROM BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE AND THE WHOLE SPECTRUM IN BOTH PARTIES BECAUSE THERE IS A SPECTRUM OF BOTH PARTIES IDEOLOGICALLY, SO WE HAVE TO BE CAREFUL IN GENERAL TO MAKE SURE THAT NOT JUST THE ELECTED BUT STAFF AND VISITORS AND EVERYBODY THAT IS PARTICIPATING IN THE PROCESS HAVE A SAFE EXPERIENCE.

SO I THINK THAT IS WHY I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO THE SAFETY MEASURES THEY WILL TAKE.

I AM CERTAIN THEY WILL HEIGHTEN ALL OF THAT.

I'M SURE WE'LL SEE A LOT MORE STATE POLICE ON THE STATE CAPITOL GROUNDS BUT I THINK THAT IS ALL IMPORTANT AND HOPEFULLY PEOPLE WILL HAVE PATIENCE WITH THAT AND UNDERSTAND IT IS FOR EVERYBODY'S SAFETY.

>> Gene: JUST TO BACKTRACK A LITTLE BIT FOLKS.

IT STARTED ON DECEMBER 4, YOU MIGHT RECALL THAT.

BULLETS IN BERNALILLO COUNTY COMMISSIONER ADRIAN BARBOA'S FAMILY HOME.

AND THEN A WEEK LATER, ATTORNEY GENERAL RAUL TORREZ' CAMPAIGN OFFICE.

A DAY AFTER THAT, ON DECEMBER 11, GUNSHOTS FIRED AT DEBBIE O'MALLEY'S ADOBE HOME, AND ON TUESDAY, JANUARY 3, SENATOR LINDA LOPEZ AND THURSDAY, JANUARY 5, MORE BULLETS WERE FIRED INTO THE LAW OFFICES OF ANTONIO MO MAESTAS.

THERE IS A LOT GOING ON OUT THERE.

NOT AS IF THIS IS ONE CRAZY LITTLE THING.

DAVE, CAN WE SLIP YOU BACK IN FOR ONE LAST THING.

I KNOW YOU HAVE HAD TECHNICAL ISSUES, WE APPRECIATE YOUR PATIENCE.

TAKE US HOME ON THIS SUBJECT.

>> Dave: HOLD ON I'LL GET IT.

>> Gene: I GUESS WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO GET TO HERE IS WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION BEFORE WE GET TO NEXT TUESDAY.

>> Dave: I THINK THAT IN A STRANGE WAY, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN POLITICS AND FOR SOME PEOPLE THE IDEA THAT YOU DO SOME SORT OF INDIVIDUAL KIND OF JANUARY 6 AGAINST POLITICIANS MAY BE WORKING FOR THEM.

I DON'T KNOW.

WE SEE WHAT HAPPENED IN THE CAPITOL.

WE SEE IT HAPPENING -- YOU KNOW -- WE ARE SHOOTING UP LEGISLATORS' HOMES IN NEW MEXICO.

WE HAD AN ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL IN BRAZIL.

IT IS LIKE, YOU KNOW, SOMEHOW THIS HAS BECOME A PART OF POLITICS IN SOME WEIRD WAY AND IT IS LIKE PEOPLE WANT TO PARTICIPATE AND THAT IS WHAT THEY DECIDED TO DO.

IT IS VERY STRANGE, RIGHT?

>> Gene: GOOD WAY TO PUT IT UP THERE FOR A FINISH, IT IS VERY STRANGE.

THANKS TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL MEET BACK HERE AT THE VIRTUAL ROUNDTABLE IN JUST ABOUT 10 MINUTES TO TALK ABOUT A STARTLING DROP IN PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT AROUND THE STATE AND HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Hernandez: I REALLY ASK MYSELF, HAVE BROWN WOMEN, HAVE BLOCK WOMEN, HAVE INDIGENOUS WOMEN EVER REALLY BEEN SAFE FROM THE NATION STATE HAVING CONTROL OVER THEIR BODY AND HAVING CONTROL OVER SEX?

AND THE ANSWER, IF YOU READ THAT BOOK, IS NO.

SO ROE V WADE IS AN ANOMALY.

I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW IT IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT THE U.S. NATION STATE HAS TAKEN AWAY OUR POWER AND TAKEN AWAY OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

IF YOU READ THE BOOK YOU'LL UNDERSTAND HOW THE SEXUAL HISTORY OF THE BORDERLANDS IS THE CRUX OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW.

>> Gene: IT IS ONLY JANUARY BUT NOT TOO SOON TO THINK ABOUT THE WATER WE MIGHT SEE FEEDING THE RIO GRANDE THIS SPRING.

THE NATIONAL WATER AND CLIMATE CENTER IS PART OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND TRACKS SNOW PACK IN THE WEST'S RIVER BASINS, PROVIDING FORECASTS FOR SNOW MELT.

THESE FORECASTS ARE UPDATED THROUGHOUT THE FIRST PART OF THE YEAR TO HELP WATER MANAGERS AND FARMERS AND THE REST OF US KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

OUR LAND LAURA PASKUS SPOKE THIS WEEK WITH ANGUS GOODBODY AT THE NATIONAL WATER AND CLIMATE CENTER AND HIS COLLEAGUE JAZ AMMON AT NEW MEXICO SNOW SURVEY PROGRAM IN ALBUQUERQUE TO UNDERSTAND WHERE WE STAND AHEAD OF SPRING.

>> Laura: GUS AND JAZ, THANK YOU FOR JOINING ME TODAY.

I APPRECIATE IT.

GUS, I WOULD LIKE TO START WITH YOU.

THE NRCS JUST PUT OUT THE JANUARY FORECAST FOR THE -- JANUARY WATER FORECAST FOR THE RIO GRANDE.

GENERALLY SPEAKING HOW DO THINGS LOOK RIGHT NOW?

>> Goodbody: GENERALLY SPEAKING THINGS ARE LOOKING BELOW AVERAGE FOR THE MOST PART AS FAR AS OUR EXPECTATION FOR SPRING AND SUMMER RUNOFF.

IT SORT OF DEPENDS ON WHICH PORTION OF THE BASIN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT, BUT RIGHT NOW MOST OF THE EARLY SNOW ACCUMULATION IS FOCUSED ON THE WESTERN PORTION OF THE BASIN IN THE HEADWATERS OF THE SAN JUAN MOUNTAINS, PARTICULARLY, ALONG WOLF CREEK PASS, IN THAT AREA.

>> Laura: SO, JAZ, ON THE GROUND, WHAT ARE YOU SEEING OUT THERE IN THE MOUNTAINS AROUND THE WATERSHED?

>> Ammon: I WAS ON ONE OF OUR WEATHER STATIONS IN THE TAOS AREA, ACTUALLY ON THE PROPERTY OF THE TAOS SKI VALLEY, GENERALLY, AND THINGS WERE PRETTY LOW.

ESPECIALLY I THINK COMPARED TO THE SAME TIME FOR THIS YEAR, LAST YEAR.

SO, WE DID GET SOME ADDITIONAL ACCUMULATION OF SNOW ACTUALLY AFTER OUR SURVEY CYCLE SO THAT IS A LITTLE BIT OPTIMISTIC.

THAT WEEKEND FOLLOWING OUR CUTOFF FOR THIS MOST RECENT SURVEY, OR THIS MOST RECENT FORECAST CYCLE, MAY PLACE A BIT MORE OPTIMISTIC OF A PICTURE, BUT THINGS WERE LOOKING LOW IN THE UPPER RIO GRANDE HEADWATERS WHEN I WAS UP THERE.

>> Laura: I WANT TO REMIND OUR AUDIENCE THAT WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SNOWPACK IN THESE WATER SUPPLY FORECASTS, WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF SNOW THAT HITS THE GROUND.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHER FACTORS THAT GO INTO WHAT AFFECTS THE SNOWPACK?

>> Ammon: OUR PROGRAM SPECIFICALLY REALLY FOCUSES ON THE SNOW/WATER EQUIVALENT IN THE SNOW.

SO, THAT IS SORT OF A DENSITY MEASUREMENT, HOW MUCH ACTUAL WATER IS PRESENT IN THAT DEPTH OF SNOW.

FOR THE RECREATION COMMUNITY, SKIERS OR SNOWMOBILERS, THOSE TYPES OF FOLKS, DEPTH IS PROBABLY THEIR MOST SIGNIFICANT FACTOR THEY ARE FOCUSED ON AND DENSITY MAY BE A SECONDARY FACTOR.

AND FOR US THAT SNOW WATER FACTOR REALLY IS WHAT WE ARE MEASURING.

>> Laura: LAST YEAR YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT SOME OF THESE SAME ISSUES.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN FOR PEOPLE HOW THINGS LIKE MAYBE TEMPERATURE, GROUNDWATER DEFICITS, THINGS LIKE THAT MIGHT AFFECT SNOW PACK?

>> Goodbody: SURE.

SO, IT IS MORE SO ABOUT HOW THE SNOW IS GOING TO MELT IN THE SPRING TIME AND SOME OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED REALLY CAN IMPACT THAT.

WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THERE IS IF WE HAVE DRYER SOILS OR DRYER GROUNDWATER CONDITIONS, IT MAY TAKE MORE OF THE SNOW MELT TO REPLENISH THOSE BEFORE WE SEE SIGNIFICANT RUNOFF IN OUR STREAMS IN SOME CASES.

THIS YEAR IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE MOST RECENT YEARS, IN THE SENSE THAT WE HAD QUITE A STRONG MONSOON THIS SUMMER, SO SOME OF THOSE DEFICITS THAT HAVE BEEN QUITE PERSISTENT IN THE RIO GRANDE BASIN IN THE MOST RECENT YEARS, WHILE NOT COMPLETELY GONE, ARE CERTAINLY IN A BETTER POSITION THIS YEAR.

SO WE DO EXPECT RUNOFF SUFFICIENCIES FROM THE SNOW WE GET THIS WINTER TO BE BETTER PERHAPS THAN IN PAST RECENT YEARS.

>> Laura: THAT IS SOMETHING NICE TO HEAR.

I KNOW THAT YOU ALSO LOOK AT THE COLORADO RIVER BASIN WHICH IS HUGE BUT, YOU KNOW, I AM WONDERING JUST A LITTLE BIT HOW THAT WATER SUPPLY FORECAST IS LOOKING THIS YEAR.

>> Goodbody: SO AS A WHOLE, THE UPPER COLORADO IS UP TO A DECENT START THIS YEAR WITH WELL ABOVE NORMAL SNOWPACK IN MUCH OF THE BASIN.

IT IS INTERESTING BECAUSE WEST WIDE THAT HAS SORT OF BEEN THE CASE.

IN A SENSE THE RIO GRANDE BASIN IS THE ONE AND MAYBE THE ARKANSAS, THE TWO BASINS, THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT OF THIS EARLY SEASON MOISTURE TAP THAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM A LOT OF THE STORMS COMING OFF THE PACIFIC.

>> Laura: SO, ACKNOWLEDGING THAT THINGS CAN DEFINITELY CHANGE FOR THE WORSE AND FOR THE BETTER, WHAT CAN WE GENERALLY EXPECT FOR THE WATERSHED OVER THE NEXT FEW MONTHS?

LET'S START WITH YOU GUS AND THEN WE'LL TALK TO JAZ TOO.

>> Goodbody: THAT IS A REALLY IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT WE ARE EARLY IN THE SEASON RIGHT NOW.

SO, WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING TO DETERMINE THE RUNOFF IN THE SPRING AND SUMMER IS LARGELY BASED ON WHAT IS YET TO HAPPEN THIS YEAR.

YOU KNOW, OUR ABILITY TO LOOK FORWARD AND ACTUALLY PREDICT WITH ANY CERTAINTY WHAT TO EXPECT FROM THE REST OF THIS WINTER IS SOMEWHAT LIMITED.

I WILL SAY THAT WE ARE CURRENTLY IN THE MIDDLE OF A THIRD CONSECUTIVE LA NINA YEAR, WHICH IS GENERALLY NOT REAL FAVORABLE AND FOR SNOW ACCUMULATION IN THE RIO GRANDE BASIN, BUT, AGAIN, IT IS REALLY VARIABLE YEAR TO YEAR, EVEN WITHIN LA NINA TYPE YEARS.

SO I AM NOT RULING ANYTHING OUT AT THIS POINT.

THE THING WE KNOW NOW IS WE ARE OFF TO LESS SNOW THAN WOULD BE TYPICAL FOR THIS TIME OF THE YEAR WHICH DOES NOT NECESSARILY BODE WELL FOR WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE SPRING AND SUMMER BUT THERE IS STILL TIME TO TURN THAT MESSAGE AROUND.

>> Laura: JAZ, DO YOU WANT TO ADD TO THAT?

>> Ammon: I WOULD JUST SAY THAT AS THOSE FOLKS WHO LIVE IN NEW MEXICO WILL BE WELL AWARE, OUR LANDSCAPE HERE IS VERY WIDELY VARIABLE THROUGHOUT THE STATE SO THE UPPER RIO GRANDE IS GOING TO BE A LOT DIFFERENT THAN MAYBE A DIFFERENT MOUNTAIN RANGE IN THE GILA OR OTHER AREAS SO WHERE YOU LIVE SPECIFICALLY MAY GET SOME KIND ANOMALOUS SITUATION OR OUTLOOK ACROSS THE RIO GRANDE MAY NOT REFLECT THAT SPECIFIC AREA VERY ACCURATELY, BUT GENERALLY WE ARE OPTIMISTIC THAT MOST DATA IS STILL YET TO COME SO WE CAN'T DRAW ANY STRONG CONCLUSIONS AT THIS POINT BEING THE JANUARY FORECAST CYCLE.

>> Laura: SO, I KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE HAD SOME ROUGH YEARS FOR FARMERS, FOR THE CITY AND CERTAINLY FOR THE RIO GRANDE ITSELF.

WE WERE KIND OF BALED OUT LATE IN THE SEASON LAST YEAR WITH SOME GOOD MONSOONS BUT IT SEEMS TO ME LIKE IT IS NOT TOO EARLY FOR PEOPLE TO BE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING UP IN THE MOUNTAINS.

I AM CURIOUS FROM BOTH OF YOU WHAT YOU WISH THE REST OF US WOULD MAYBE BE PAYING BETTER ATTENTION TO.

>> Goodbody: IT IS SORT OF BACK TO THE SAME THING, THAT WE ARE LIMITED AS FAR AS BEING ABLE TO PREDICT INTO THE FUTURE.

AND A LOT OF THE WEATHER THAT IS STILL TO COME THIS SEASON IS REALLY WHAT IS GOING TO DICTATE WHAT OR RUNOFF IS.

SO A LOT OF OUR FORECASTING, PARTICULARLY IN THE EARLY SEASON, IS MORE ABOUT GIVING A RANGE OF POSSIBLE OUTCOMES AND THEIR LIKELIHOODS ESSENTIALLY.

SO, I ENCOURAGE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO LOOK AT THE FULL PROBABILISTIC FORECAST AND TRY TO DIG A LITTLE DEEPER THAN IS IT GOING TO BE ABOVE OR BELOW, BECAUSE JUST SOME THINGS ARE JUST NOT KNOWABLE.

>> Laura: WHAT ABOUT YOU JAZ?

ESPECIALLY, YOU'RE OUT CHECKING THE SNOW LEVELS AND STATIONS.

WHAT DO YOU HOPE THAT THE REST OF US WILL PAY ATTENTION TO THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE SEASON?

>> Ammon: WELL, ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE RIO GRANDE AND THESE OTHER MAJOR RIVER BASINS IS THAT THEY ARE HIGHLY MANAGED BASINS SO OUR FORECASTS ARE SPECIFICALLY FOR UNIMPAIRED STREAM FLOWS AND WE HAVE A LOT OF RESERVOIRS AND OTHER FACTORS IN THOSE WATERSHEDS THAT WILL DETERMINE HOW MUCH WATER IS IN THAT RIVER AT YOUR PARTICULAR LOCATION.

SO, IT IS HARD TO DRAW A DIRECT COMPARISON BETWEEN SNOW ACCUMULATION, SNOW WATER EQUIVALENT AND AMOUNT OF WATER THAT IS ACTUALLY IN THE RIVER.

>> Laura: ONE LAST QUESTION.

I AM CURIOUS, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE ONE OF THE THINGS WE TALKED ABOUT HERE ON THE SHOW IS THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS THAT ARE VERY PREDICTABLE IN TERMS OF CLIMATE CHANGE THAT A WARMER WORLD FOR THE SOUTHWEST TENDS TO BE A DRYER WORLD, BUT WE ALSO TALK A LOT ABOUT HOW CLIMATE CHANGE HAS MADE CERTAIN THINGS LESS PREDICTABLE AND LESS SURE.

I AM CURIOUS WHAT YOU BOTH MIGHT HAVE TO SAY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE CAN ANTICIPATE IN FUTURE YEARS WITH RESPECT TO CERTAINTY OR UNCERTAINTY IN THIS CHANGING CLIMATE?

>> Goodbody: THAT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

YOU KNOW, A LOT OF THE BASIS FOR OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THESE SYSTEMS WITH REGARD TO RUNOFF DOES HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT WE HAVE OBSERVED IN THE PAST, TO SOME DEGREE.

PERHAPS, THE BIGGEST THING THAT CLIMATE CHANGE PRESENTS AS A CHALLENGE TO US FOR WATER SUPPLY FORECASTING IS THAT SOME OF THOSE PIECES MAY NOT BE STABLE, MEANING THEY MAY NOT BEHAVE THE SAME WAY THEY HAVE IN THE PAST, WHICH ULTIMATELY DOES LEAD TO INCREASED POTENTIAL UNCERTAINTY IN OUR FORECASTING GOING FORWARD.

THAT SAID, I WILL SAY THAT A LOT OF THE CHANGES WE ARE EXPERIENCING FROM CLIMATE CHANGE TENDS TO BE INCREMENTAL IN NATURE AND THEREFORE, ESPECIALLY IN THE CONTEXT OF THE UNCERTAINTY WITHIN FORECASTING ALREADY, I AM BASICALLY SAYING IT IS QUITE UNCERTAIN AS IT IS RIGHT NOW.

SO OF THESE NEW UNCERTAINTIES, WHILE CONCERNING DO NOT INVALIDATE THE CURRENT FORECASTS.

>> Laura: ANY LAST WORDS, JAZ?

>> Ammon: I WON'T ADD TOO MUCH TO WHAT GUS SAID BUT I WILL SAY KEEP -- STAY POSTED FOR WHAT IS YET TO COME.

WE NORMALLY DO A SUMMATION OF THE CONDITIONS WE HAVE OBSERVED THROUGHOUT THE WINTER, LATER ON IN THE SPRING, FOR THE RIO GRANDE BASIN.

SO THAT IS WHEN WE REALLY HAVE A MUCH CLEARER PICTURE OF WHAT TO EXPECT MOVING FORWARD INTO THE SUMMER AND THE IRRIGATION SEASON.

>> Laura: THANK YOU BOTH SO MUCH.

WE'LL ALL DEFINITELY BE PAYING ATTENTION.

SO, THANK YOU.

>> Gene: WELCOME BACK TO THE LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

NEW DATA FROM THE STATE PUBLIC EDUCATION DEPARTMENT SHOWS STUDENT ENROLLMENT IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS CONTINUES TO STEADILY DECLINE.

NOW THIS YEAR'S DATA SHOWS STUDENT POPULATIONS IN ALBUQUERQUE HAVE DROPPED BY MORE THAN 9,000 STUDENTS IN ONLY THE PAST FOUR YEARS.

SANTA FE, RIO RANCHO AND ESPANOLA ARE ALL SEEING DROPS AS WELL.

WE'LL GET INTO THE PANDEMIC'S IMPACT ON THESE NUMBERS, HOLD TIGHT THERE, BUT THE FACT IS MANY PARENTS ARE SHIFTING, SENDING THEIR CHILDREN TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS, CHARTER SCHOOLS OR OBVIOUSLY CHOOSING TO HOME SCHOOL AS WELL AS AN OPTION.

DAVID, SHOULD WE BE CONCERNED THAT THIS TREND IS CONTINUING NOW IN 2023 OR IS THIS JUST A BLIP OR HOW SHOULD YOU SEE THIS?

>> Dave: I THINK WE SHOULD BE CONCERNED.

I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE VOTE IN DIFFERENT WAYS AND THE WAY THAT THEY ARE VOTING ABOUT SENDING KIDS TO PUBLIC SCHOOL IS THEY ARE NOT DOING IT, YOU KNOW.

AND SO, I MEAN, THE SANTA FE PAPER HAD AN INTERESTING THING TALKING ABOUT HOW A LOT OF ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS MAYBE COULD BE ECONOMIC IN THE SENSE THAT YOUNG FAMILIES CANNOT AFFORD -- YOUNG FAMILIES CANNOT AFFORD TO LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS IN SANTA FE SO THEY HAVE GONE OTHER PLACES.

I THINK THAT IS PROBABLY TRUE BUT THEN AGAIN IF THAT WERE COMPLETELY TRUE RIO RANCHO WOULD BE OVERRUN BECAUSE ALL THE YOUNG FAMILIES TEND TO GO TO RIO RANCHO.

I THINK IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO RECOGNIZE THAT STATE GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS AND ALL GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS SHOULD TAKE NOTE, PEOPLE JUST HAVE NO BELIEF AND NO FAITH IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS.

I THINK THAT IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER DISASTER FOR A DEMOCRACY, NO MATTER HOW YOU LOOK AT IT.

>> Gene: I GOT TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT LATER.

BUT I'LL GET LAURA IN ON THIS ONE.

AS YOU KNOW, LAURA STATE FUNDING FOR DISTRICTS IS BASED ON THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS IN THAT DISTRICT SO THIS IS A JAM FOR DISTRICTS.

HOW CAN THEY APPEAL TO STUDENTS AND PARENTS AND IF THEY DON'T, THEY JUST AUTOMATICALLY LOSE THE MONEY AND EVERYBODY LOSES OUT?

THAT DOESN'T SEEM QUITE RIGHT.

>> Laura: THE FUNDING FORMULA HAS ALWAYS BEEN BASED ON ENROLLMENT AND THAT IS ALSO WHY THEY HAVE ENROLLMENT DATES OR STUDENT ENROLLMENT DATES AT CERTAIN PERIODS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR TO CONFIRM THAT PEOPLE -- THAT THE STUDENTS HAVE REMAINED IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT OR IN THE SCHOOLS, RIGHT.

SO, IT IS TIED ABSOLUTELY TO FORMULAS, BUT TO YOUR QUESTION, I THINK WHAT CAN THE SCHOOL DO TO BRING BACK SOME OF THE STUDENTS, I THINK IMPROVE OVERALL SCHOOL STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.

I THINK STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT, IF THEY WERE TO FOCUS MORE ON ACADEMICS AND MAKE SURE STUDENTS ARE GETTING A QUALITY EDUCATION, REALLY TARGET THOSE STUDENTS AND TAKE A LOOK AT WHY ARE THOSE STUDENTS NOW CHOOSING TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR EVEN HOME SCHOOL, THAT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE DONE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL, AT THE SCHOOL LEVEL AS WELL AS SCHOOL DISTRICT LEVEL.

WE ALSO SEE IN SOME OF THE RURAL PARTS OF THE STATE, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT ARE ABLE TO MOVE ACROSS STATE LINES, YOU KNOW, SOUTHEASTERN PART OF THE STATE WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF FOLKS IN THE OIL AND GAS BUSINESS, YOU KNOW, THEY ROUTINELY SPEND A LOT OF TIME IN TEXAS, ANYWAY, FOR WORK.

THEY COULD MOVE THERE MORE EASILY, AND SAME WITH THE WESTERN PART OF THE STATE AND ARIZONA, THERE IS FOLKS THAT -- IN FACT, THERE IS PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE STATE THAT GO TO SCHOOL IN ARIZONA IN SOME CASES AND THEN EVEN UP IN THE BORDER WITH COLORADO, WE SEE SOME OF THAT AS WELL.

I THINK ALL OF THAT IS A REFLECTION ON JUST WHAT KIND OF QUALITY EDUCATION ARE WE PROVIDING HERE IN NEW MEXICO AND IF WE ARE GETTING THIS REPUTATION, WHICH WE HAVE HAD FOR A LONG TIME, BUT WE ARE GETTING IT MORE AT THE SCHOOL LEVELS THAT THERE JUST ISN'T VERY MANY OPPORTUNITIES FOR STUDENTS.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO CHOOSE TO GO ELSEWHERE AND THAT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

>> Gene: LAURA, LET ME ASK YOU THIS BEFORE I GET TO DAN.

I HEAR THIS A LOT FROM FOLKS WHO SUPPORT PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM.

THIS IDEA OF CREATING AN EDUCATION GAP.

MEANING THE EDUCATION YOU GET OUTSIDE OF THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM IS BETTER THAN WHAT IS IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM AND THERE IS LONG-TERM RAMIFICATIONS FOR THAT.

DO YOU HAVE THAT SENSE AS WELL OR IS THIS A WORRY THAT IS JUST NOT BASED ON MUCH.

>> Laura: I THINK IT IS A WORRY.

I THINK WE SHOULD ALL BE WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR THE VAST MAJORITY, I THINK, OF STUDENTS IN NEW MEXICO AND IN PARTICULAR LOWER INCOME OR FOLKS WHO DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO JUST SIMPLY GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL OR EVEN HOME SCHOOL.

I MEAN, I THINK THERE IS A DISPARITY THERE THAT WILL EXACERBATE THAT GAP, RIGHT.

THERE IS PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE MEANS AND EDUCATION, YOU KNOW, TWO PERSON HOME, BOTH PARENTS EDUCATED, WHERE ONE IS ABLE TO TAKE ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF HOME SCHOOLING CHILDREN, THAT YOU DON'T SEE IN LOW INCOME COMMUNITIES.

SO THAT WILL CREATE A FURTHER DISPARITY IN THAT EDUCATION GAP AND WAGE GAP AND EVERYTHING ELSE.

SO, PUBLIC EDUCATION NEEDS TO BE, I THINK, CONTINUING TO BE A PRIORITY FOR EVERYBODY.

YOU KNOW, I AM A PRODUCT OF PUBLIC EDUCATION.

I WAS, YOU KNOW, DEMING WILD CAT, FOR THE ENTIRE TIME, BUT I SEE SOME OF THOSE SCHOOLS BACK THEN PROVIDED AND WHAT THEY PROVIDE NOW AND ITS HUGE DIFFERENCES IN RESOURCES WHERE YOU HAVE SCHOOLS THAT HAD JUST HAVE A LOT MORE OPPORTUNITY THAN SOME OF THE RURAL SCHOOLS, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T AN OPPORTUNITY FOR QUALITY EDUCATION AND THERE AREN'T OPPORTUNITIES TO EXCEL AND GO INTO HIGHER ED AS WELL.

IT HAS TO BE, YOU KNOW, WE JUST HAVE TO CONTINUE TO PUT FOCUS INTO MAKING SURE THERE IS RESOURCES AVAILABLE FOR STUDENTS.

>> Gene: IT SEEMS PRETTY CLEAR, FOLKS ARE TALKING ABOUT A VALUE PROPOSITION HERE, TO USE A BUSINESS TERM.

AND IF THEY DON'T FIND VALUE IN IT, THEY'LL GO SOMEWHERE ELSE TO FIND VALUE.

HOW CONCERNED SHOULD WE BE IN THE OVERALL POT OF EDUCATION THAT WE ARE HAVING THIS SPLIT NOW FOR PARENTS?

>> Dan: WE SHOULD BE GREATLY CONCERNED, ESPECIALLY SINCE WE ARE 50TH IN THE NATION IN EDUCATING THE KIDS, 51ST, I THINK.

I THINK WASHINGTON, D.C. ACTUALLY PRODUCES A BETTER OUTCOME IN EDUCATION THAN NEW MEXICO DOES.

WE USED TO BE AROUND 47 OR 48.

WE ARE DOWN TO 51ST NOW.

IT IS TIME FOR ELECTED OFFICIALS TO TAKE HEED OF WHAT THEY ARE HERE.

THE STATE IS OFFERING A PRODUCT AND AN OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF PEOPLE OR LARGE NUMBER OF PEOPLE DON'T LIKE THE PRODUCT THAT IS OFFERED.

YOU HAVE TWO CHOICES.

YOU EITHER CRAM PEOPLE INTO THE PRODUCT THAT YOU TELL THEM THEY HAVE TO HAVE OR LISTEN TO WHAT YOUR CLIENTS WANT AND YOU NAVIGATE THROUGH AND YOU PROVIDE WHAT THEY WANT.

I THINK RIGHT NOW THERE IS A LOT OF SCHOOLS IN THIS STATE THAT ARE NOT PROVIDING, A LOT OF SCHOOL DISTRICTS, NOT PROVIDING WHAT THEIR CLIENTS WANT AND THEY ARE FINDING ALTERNATIVES, WHETHER IT IS THROUGH PRIVATE SCHOOLS OR WHETHER PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS, WHETHER IT IS ON LINE, DISTANCE LEARNING.

I MEAN THAT IS THE THING.

WE DID THIS WITH SCHOOL VOUCHERS AND WE TALKED ABOUT THIS GAP.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE GAP FOR YEARS AND TALKING ABOUT HOW OPTIONS LIKE SCHOOL VOUCHERS WILL HELP LOW INCOME FOLKS FINALLY HAVE AN OPTION TO GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOL.

THEY REALLY DON'T NEED A PRIVATE SCHOOL TODAY.

EVERY KID ON THEIR PHONE NOW CAN TAKE CLASSES THEY CAN TAKE CLASSES FROM TOP RATED SCHOOLS IN BOSTON AND NEW YORK, LIVING IN CLOUDCROFT NEW MEXICO.

WE COULDN'T DO THAT WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER.

EITHER THE STATE IS GOING TO CATCH UP AND REALIZE, LISTEN, WE HAVE A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THE PRODUCT WE ARE PUTTING OUT THERE, AND WE ARE GOING TO TAKE SERIOUS STEPS TO CORRECT THAT PROBLEM OR WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE THE MASS EXODUS THAT IS HAPPENING.

THE FUNDING FORMULA, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO POINT TO THE FUNDING FORMULA AND SAY IT IS A PROBLEM, BUT IT IS REALLY NOT A PROBLEM AS MUCH AS IT IS A AN EYE OPENER, RIGHT.

YOU'RE GOING TO START SEEING SCHOOLS WHERE THEY ARE RUNNING TO, LIKE RIO RANCHO, WILL GET MORE MONEY AND BUILD SCHOOLS.

AND DOWN THE ROAD YOU'LL SEE SCHOOLS THAT THEY HAVE GOT MORE ROOM THAN THEY HAVE KIDS TO PUT IN THERE.

IF WE DON'T TAKE THIS AS ELECTED OFFICIALS TAKE A STEP BACK AND SAY, WHERE IS THE MIGRATION NO.

1.

NO.

2 WHY IS THERE A MIGRATION?

WHY IS EVERYBODY LEAVING THAT SCHOOL TO GO TO THIS SCHOOL AND WE HAVE GOT TO FIGURE THAT OUT.

AND THEN WE'LL JUST KEEP REPEATING THE SAME PROBLEMS.

I THINK MAYBE FINALLY FOR THE FIRST TIME, THE PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING AND I THINK ELECTED OFFICIALS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO HEAR THEM.

>> Gene: ON THE OTHER END OF THE SPECTRUM FOR EDUCATION IS UNIVERSITIES.

INTERESTING POINT HERE, UNIVERSITIES ACROSS THE STATE, I DON'T KNOW, THEY APPEAR TO BE ON THE OTHER END OF THE PROBLEM WITH A WEIRD INCREASE IN ENROLLMENT IN THE LAST YEAR AT UNM, NMSU AND HIGHLANDS.

IN FACT, UNM'S FIRST ENROLLMENT INCREASE IN 10 YEARS.

WE HAVE BEEN DECLINING IN UNIVERSITY ENROLLMENT FOR A LONG TIME AND UNM THINKING THE BIGGEST REASON IS THE NEW OPPORTUNITIES SCHOLARSHIP THAT GOOSED THINGS ALONG HERE.

I AM CURIOUS WHERE YOU ARE COMING FROM ON HIGHER EDUCATION.

WHAT IS THE IMPACT ON DROPPING PUBLIC SCHOOL ENROLLMENT AND HOW IT MANIFESTS IN HIGHER ED DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Laura: I DO THINK THERE IS A POTENTIAL IMPACT THERE AS YOU FOLLOW STUDENTS THROUGH THE PROCESS, RIGHT.

I MEAN, FOR MANY STUDENTS THERE IS GOING TO BE A PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS THAT SEEK TO GO OUT OF STATE, SEEK AND HAVE THE GRADES AND ARE COMPETITIVE FOR SCHOOLS BACK EAST OR OTHER HIGHER RANKING SCHOOLS, BUT I THINK THE VAST MAJORITY AND EVEN THOSE STUDENTS WHO COMPETITIVE FOR OTHER SCHOOLS, THEY ARE LOOKING AT LOCAL COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, CLOSER TO HOME, CLOSER TO PARENTS, FINANCIAL REASONS.

THERE IS ALL KINDS OF REASONS FOR THAT.

BUT AS THAT PUBLIC ENROLLMENT DROPS, IT COULD HAVE A PIPELINE IMPACT, I THINK, ON UNIVERSITIES, COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES LOCALLY.

WHAT IS INTERESTING WITH THE OPPORTUNITY SCHOLARSHIP, IT NOW OPENS UP, OBVIOUSLY, AN OPPORTUNITY FOR SO MANY OTHER PEOPLE, MAYBE FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN OUT FOR A WHILE, TO RETHINK SORT OF WHERE THEY ARE AND COME BACK INTO SCHOOL.

I DEFINITELY THINK THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THE OFFERING OF THE OPPORTUNITY SCHOLAR AND INCREASED ENROLLMENT IN UNIVERSITIES AND COLLEGES.

I THINK THAT IS A GOOD THING OVERALL AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE, AND AS WE TRY TO RECRUIT COMPANIES FROM OUT OF STATE TO COME FOR MORE ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, THAT IS AN AREA THEY ARE GOING TO LOOK AT CLOSELY, LIKE WHAT KIND OF PIPELINE DO WE HAVE OF EDUCATED, TALENTED PEOPLE COMING OUT OF COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES EVEN IF IT IS ONLY A TWO-YEAR DEGREE WHO CAN START TO FILL SOME OF THESE JOBS.

THAT IS AN AREA WE HAVE HISTORICALLY BEEN CHALLENGED WITH, LIKE WE ARE NOT ABLE TO BE AS COMPETITIVE AS OTHER STATES.

BUT YOU THIS HAS -- NOT TO BE SO REPETITIVE-- THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY TO GET MORE STUDENTS INTO THOSE PIPELINES AND TRY TO RECRUIT MORE BUSINESSES.

>> Gene: YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT, LAURA, AND I AM GOING TO WRAP THIS UP THERE BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN ARGUED FOR YEARS IN THIS STUDIO AND OTHER PLACES FOR A GOOD LONG TIME THAT IF AND WHEN WE STITCH JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION TO COLLEGE EDUCATION, MEANING IF YOU'RE ON A TRACK TO BE, SAY, A PLUMBER OR AN ELECTRICIAN OR A WELDER AND MAKE A TON OF MONEY, THAT YOU DON'T NEED TO HAVE A FOUR-YEAR DEGREE NECESSARILY, YOU CAN DO SOMETHING IN THAT UNIVERSITY STRUCTURE THAT PUTS YOU OUT INTO THE EARNING WORLD VERY QUICKLY.

PERHAPS, THIS IS WHAT IS GOING TO GOOSE US DOWN THE ROAD HERE ON THAT, TOO.

WHO KNOWS.

THANKS AGAIN TO OUR LINE OPINION PANEL.

WE'LL BE BACK HERE FOR ONE FINAL DISCUSSION ON A HOUSING SHELTER OPENING HERE IN ALBUQUERQUE AND ITS IMPACT ON THE DEBATE OVER SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

THAT IS IN ABOUT 10 MINUTES, BUT, FIRST, NEW MEXICO IN FOCUS CORRESPONDENT RUSSELL CONTRERAS CATCHES UP WITH UNM PROFESSOR AND AUTHOR TO TALK ABOUT HER NEW BOOK CALLED BORDER BODIES.

IN THE BOOK, DR. BERNADINE HERNANDEZ HIGHLIGHTS THE ROLE OF SEXUAL CAPITAL IN THE FORMATION OF THE WEST AND ARGUES HISPANIC WOMEN WERE KEY IN CREATING THE CITIES AND SOCIETIES THAT WE KNOW TODAY.

>> Russell: BERNADINE HERNANDEZ, PROFESSOR OF ENGLISH AT UNIVERSITY OF NEW MEXICO, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US TODAY.

>> Hernandez: THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Russell: YOUR NEW BOOK, BORDER BODIES, RACIALIZED SEXUALITY, SEXUAL CAPITAL AND VIOLENCE IN 19TH CENTURY BORDERLAND.

IT COMES OUT.

IT IS VERY PROVOCATIVE.

YOU HAVE A LOT OF GOOD THINGS TO SAY BUT BEFORE WE GET INTO SOME OF THE RESEARCH, YOU START THIS BOOK OFF WITH THE WEST MESA MURDERS.

WHY START WITH THAT CONTEMPORARY EVENT TO DEFINE WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO TAKE US ON THIS JOURNEY HERE.

>> Hernandez: SO, I AM ORIGINALLY FROM ALBUQUERQUE SO ALBUQUERQUE HAS A BIG PLACE IN MY WORK AND MY RESEARCH AND THE RESEARCH IS ALL ABOUT HOW SEX AFFECTS SOCIETY IN A MATERIAL WAY.

INSTEAD OF JUST BEING AN IDENTITY CATEGORY OF HOMOSEXUALITY, HETEROSEXUALITY, BISEXUALITY, I AM THINKING ABOUT SEX AND THE REPERCUSSIONS IT HAS ON SOCIETY.

AND SO, THE WEST MESA MURDERS FOR ME WAS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF HOW THIS THEORETICAL FRAMEWORK IN MY BOOK WAS ABLE TO ENUNCIATE ITSELF.

AND BECAUSE THESE WOMEN, THESE 11 WOMEN, WERE MISSING BETWEEN 2001 AND 2005 AND THEY WEREN'T ACTUALLY FOUND, THE FIRST BONE WASN'T EXPOSED UNTIL 2009 ON THE KB HOME DEVELOPMENT LAND, AND I THINK ABOUT HOW THESE WOMEN WERE LABELED IN THE PRESS WHENEVER THEIR BONES WERE FOUND AND ALL LABELED AS SEX WORKERS AND AS PROSTITUTES.

AND THAT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO ME BECAUSE IT BECAME KIND OF A DISCOURSE OR A CONVERSATION ABOUT HOW THESE WOMEN WERE CULPABLE FOR THEIR OWN MURDER BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PROPER FEMININES, THEY WEREN'T DOING THE PROPER FEMININE THING BECAUSE THEY WERE PROSTITUTES AND THEY WERE INVOLVED IN DRUGS AND THEY DIDN'T HOLD A 9:00 TO 5:00 JOB, AND COUPLE THAT WITH THESE BONES AND THEIR BODIES BEING EXPOSED IN THE TOP FIVE HOME DEVELOPERS IN THE NATION WHICH IS KB HOMES, I THOUGHT IT WAS A REALLY GREAT EXAMPLE TO BE ABLE TO START THIS BOOK AND HOW SEX ADDS CAPITAL TO OUR SOCIETY IN THESE WAYS THAT WE DON'T REALLY SEE.

>> Russell: YOU'RE VERY CLEAR TO SAY, LOOK, I AM NOT ROMANTICIZING.

THIS WAS A HARSH LIFE BUT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT SEX WORK WAS ESSENTIAL IN THE PRODUCTION, CULTURE PRODUCTION, THE CAPITAL PRODUCTION, THE ECONOMY, FLESH IT OUT.

WHY IS THAT?

>> Hernandez: YEAH, SO, CHAPTER 5, THE BOOK CLUB, GO BUY IT, BUT CHAPTER 5 OF THE BOOK IS ABOUT THE HISTORY OF PROSTITUTION IN ARIZONA, SPECIFICALLY, AND I LOOK AT THAT HISTORY OF PROSTITUTION WHERE THESE WOMEN THAT WERE VOLITIONALLY PRACTICING PROSTITUTE, VOLITIONALLY MEANING THEY WANTED TO BE PROSTITUTES, THAT WAS THE CAREER THEY HAD CHOSEN.

THEY ACTUALLY BUILT THE CITY OF TUCSON WHERE ARIZONA WAS REALLY, REALLY SPARSE DURING THE 19TH CENTURY, YOU KNOW.

NEW MEXICO, TEXAS, CALIFORNIA WERE BASICALLY THRIVING AND ARIZONA WAS KIND OF LIKE, YOU KNOW, ZOMBIE ZONE, IF YOU WILL.

THERE WAS A LOT OF GOLD MINING THERE BUT PROSTITUTION WAS THE MAIN ECONOMY THAT WAS KEEPING ARIZONA AFLOAT.

AND, BASICALLY, WHAT THE PROSTITUTES DID IN ARIZONA WAS THEY BUILT A CITY.

THEY HAD ALL OF THESE MUNICIPAL CODES.

ACTUALLY DOCTORS WOULD COME IN AND CHARGE THESE WOMEN FOR HEALTH CHECKS, RIGHT?

OR THEY WOULD COME IN AND THEY WOULD SAY, YOU HAVE TO PAY A FEE FOR THE BUNKER YOU'RE STAYING IN.

ALL OF THESE FEES THE MUNICIPALITY WOULD CHARGE THESE PROSTITUTES WOULD BUILD INTO THE CITY OF TUCSON.

SO THEY HAD A LOT OF POWER.

THEY HAD A LOT OF POLITICAL POWER BUT AS WE SEE AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, ALL OF THESE REALLY KIND OF -- THESE IMMIGRATION LAWS THAT FOCUS ON CLEANSING THE BORDER OF SEX AND RACIALIZED POPULATIONS HAD A REALLY ILL EFFECT ON PROSTITUTION AT THAT TIME AND SO 1907 WAS THE BIG PROSTITUTION LAW OR WAS A BIG IMMIGRATION LAW THAT HAPPENED AT THAT TIME.

AND BASICALLY IT WAS TIED TO PROSTITUTION AND SEX.

SO, IF IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS THOUGHT THAT A WOMAN WAS PRACTICING PROSTITUTION, WHETHER THAT SHE WAS BORN IN THE AMERICAS IN THE UNITED STATES OR BORN IN MEXICO, SHE WOULD BE DEPORTED BACK TO MEXICO REGARDLESS OF HER IMMIGRATION STATUS.

PROSTITUTION AT THE TURN OF THE CENTURY STARTED TO BECOME REALLY, REALLY DANGEROUS FOR MEXICAN WOMEN IN 1907 AND ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL TODAY.

AND SO WHERE WE HAD THIS REALLY POWERFUL FIGURE OF THE PROSTITUTE THAT BUILT AN ENTIRE CITY, HER PERSONA, HER JOB, REALLY OPENED HER UP FOR A LOT OF VIOLENCE AND ACTUAL DEPORTATION BY THE TURN OF THE CENTURY.

>> Russell: NOW, IN THE BOOK YOU DO LOOK AT OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS THAT TELL THE STORY, BUT YOU ALSO LOOK AT DIARIES, SHORT STORIES, YOU HEAR THE VOICES.

WHAT ARE THESE WOMEN SAYING WHEN YOU ACTUALLY HEAR FROM THEM?

>> Hernandez: I LOOK AT THE PERIPHERY OF ALL OF THE STORIES, ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS, ALL OF THE TESTIMONIALS, ALL OF THE COURT CASES THAT I WAS LOOKING AT AND THE WOMEN'S VOICES ARE NOT CENTRAL.

SO, IT WAS REALLY HARD TO WRITE THIS BOOK BECAUSE I DIDN'T HAVE AN ARCHIVE TO WORK WITH.

I HAD TO REALLY READ BETWEEN THE SILENCES.

SO, THOSE WOMEN'S VOICES WERE ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, WANTING TO BE -- THEY WERE ON THE VERGE OF WANTING TO BE HEARD AND ON THE VERGE OF DIEING AT THE SAME TIME.

SO, WHAT I DID WAS RECUPERATED THOSE VOICE, SUCH POWERFUL VOICES.

WHILE THIS BOOK IS ABOUT VIOLENCE AND REALLY KIND OF A HARSH LIFE ON THE BORDERLAND FROM THE 19TH CENTURY TO THE TURN OF THE CENTURY, THESE WOMEN THRIVED IN THE BORDERLAND AND THEY LOVED AND LIVED AND DID ALL OF THE THINGS, YOU KNOW, THEY PROBABLY SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN DOING BECAUSE THE NATION STATE WAS ACTUALLY TRYING TO PUSH THEM DOWN, PUSH THEIR VOICES DOWN AND PUSH THEIR BODIES DOWN BUT THEY REALLY -- THE STORIES REALLY KIND OF JUMPED OUT AT ME ON THE PERIPHERY AND RECLAIMED THEMSELVES.

SO IT WAS REALLY KIND OF LIKE A GHOSTLY ADVENTURE TO WRITE THIS BOOK.

LIKE I SAID, NONE OF THESE WOMEN WERE ACTUALLY IN THE ARCHIVES THEMSELVES.

I REALLY HAD TO FIGHT TO LIKE FIGURE OUT WHERE THEIR VOICES WERE.

IT WAS REALLY POWERFUL WHEN THEY ALL CAME TOGETHER IN THE FINAL FORM TO THINK ABOUT HOW MANY WOMEN'S VOICES AND HOW MANY WOMEN'S STORIES ARE ACTUALLY IN THAT TEXT.

I WOULD SAY THERE IS 10 TO 12 UNCOVERED WOMEN'S SEXUAL STORIES AND SEXUAL HISTORIES IN THAT BOOK.

>> Russell: TALK ABOUT JOSEPHA RODRIGUEZ.

WHO IS SHE?

AND WHAT HAPPENED TO HER?

>> Hernandez: YEAH, SHE WAS AN AMAZINGLY POWERFUL TEJANA.

YOU'RE FROM TEXAS.

SO, I AM SURE THAT IS WHY YOU LIKE HER.

HER FATHER ENDED UP DYING AND SHE WAS KIND OF ON HER OWN IN TEXAS AND ACTUALLY BUILT AN INN WHERE SHE HOUSED CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS THAT WERE TAKING GOODS FROM THE CONFEDERATE STATES DOWN TO MEXICO AND THEN THOSE GOODS WOULD BE TRANSFERRED AND SENT TO EUROPE.

SO, SHE WAS REALLY PART OF THIS INTRICATE COMMODITY TRADE THAT A LOT OF SCHOLARS WILL SAY THAT THE SOUTHWEST BORDER LAND WAS NOT A CAPITALIST SOCIETY BEFORE THE RAILROAD CAME.

AND I ARGUE IN THIS BOOK THAT IT IS BECAUSE OF WOMEN LIKE JOSEPHA THAT ACTUALLY PROVIDED A SPACE FOR CAPITALISM TO REALLY FLOURISH.

SHE AIDED CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS, LIKE I SAID, COMING IN AND SENDING THEIR GOODS DOWN AND SHE LET THEM STAY AT HER INN WHICH HER INN WAS REALLY JUST A COT, BASICALLY.

IT WASN'T ANYTHING EXTRAVAGANT.

BUT ONE NIGHT SHE HAD A HORSE TRADER COME IN AND HE HAD A BIG SACK OF GOLD AND HE STAYED AT HER INN.

AND THE NEXT MORNING HE WAS MISSING.

AND THE SLAVES FROM THE NEXT HOUSE OVER FOUND HIS BODY FLOATING IN A RIVER.

SO, HIS LAST PLACE OF OCCUPATION WAS AT JOSEPHA RODRIGUEZ' INN SO THEY ARRESTED HER AND CHARGED HER WITH HIS MURDER.

SHE KEPT SAYING SHE DID NOT DO IT, SHE DID NOT DO IT.

AND THEY ACTUALLY FOUND HIS GOLD IN THE RIVER AS WELL.

SO SHE DIDN'T TAKE THE GOLD.

BUT, BECAUSE SHE WAS AIDING IN THIS KIND OF CONFEDERACY TRADES OF GOODS, SHE WAS SENTENCED TO HANGING, EXECUTION BY HANGING.

SHE IS JUST A REALLY INTERESTING FIGURE BECAUSE OF HER LABOR IN AIDING GOODS THAT ARE TRANSNATIONAL REALLY GOES UNNOTICED.

I REALLY TRY AND WRITE ABOUT HER IN THAT CHAPTER AS THIS WOMAN WHO PRODUCED SO MUCH LABOR, SO MUCH ECONOMIC STABILITY FOR TEXAS, BUT ALL OF THAT LABOR GOES UNNOTICED BECAUSE SHE IS NOT A WAGE LABORER.

SHE DOESN'T WORK 9 TO 5.

SHE DOESN'T CLOCK IN.

SHE DOESN'T PRODUCE ANYTHING FOR THE NATION STATE, BUT SHE IS PRODUCING AND REPRODUCING ALL OF THESE KIND OF TRADES THAT ARE GOING INTO MEXICO AND INTO EUROPE.

SHE IS JUST A REALLY POWERFUL FIGURE.

>> Russell: THIS BOOK CAME OUT JUST BEFORE THE RECENT ROE DECISION HERE.

WHY IS THIS BOOK IMPORTANT FOR OUR CONTEMPORARY TIMES.

>> Hernandez: I REALLY ASKED MYSELF, HAVE BROWN WOMEN, HAVE BLACK WOMEN, HAVE INDIGENOUS WOMEN REALLY BEEN SAFE FROM THE NATION STATE HAVING CONTROL OVER THEIR BODY AND CONTROL OVER SEX?

THE ANSWER IF YOU READ THAT BOOK IS NO.

SO, ROE V WADE IS NOT AN ANOMALY.

I JUST WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW IT IS NOT THE FIRST TIME THAT THE U.S. NATION STATE HAS TAKEN AWAY OUR POWER, HAS TAKEN AWAY OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

IF YOU READ THE BOOK, YOU'LL UNDERSTAND THE CONNECTION BETWEEN HOW THE SEXUAL HISTORY OF BORDERLANDS IS THE CRUX OF WHAT WE ARE SEEING NOW IN TERMS OF AGENCY BEING TAKEN AWAY FROM WOMEN'S BODIES.

>> Gene: HELLO ONCE MORE TO OUR LINE OPINION PANELISTS.

AN EMERGENCY HOUSING SHELTER IN ALBUQUERQUE OPENED THIS WEEK AT THE OLD LOVELACE HOSPITAL ON GIBSON.

THAT WAS TUESDAY.

IT WILL PROVIDE EMERGENCY OVERNIGHT SPACE FOR 50 PEOPLE.

NOW THE SHELTER RECEIVED PUSH BACK FROM THREE ALBUQUERQUE CITY COUNCILORS LAST WEEK WITH ONE COUNCILOR SAYING THE SHELTER'S OPENING FELT RUSHED.

THIS ALL COMES DURING A MAJOR BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN COUNCIL AND THE MAYOR ON SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES.

AND, DAVID, STARTING WITH THIS MOST RECENT EXAMPLE, WAS THE GIBSON AREA GIVEN ENOUGH NOTICE BEFORE OPENING ITS HOUSING SHELTER.

WHY THE ROCKY START?

>> Dave: YOU KNOW, NO, I DON'T THINK THEY WERE GIVEN ENOUGH NOTICE BUT ON THE OTHER HAND YOU COULD GIVE THEM THREE OR FOUR YEARS WORTH OF NOTICE AND THEY ARE STILL GOING TO PUSH BACK.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, NOT IN MY BACK YARD IS JUST ONE OF THOSE THINGS.

NOBODY WANTS TO HAVE A HOMELESS SHELTER NEAR THEM YET WE SOMEHOW NEED HOMELESS SHELTERS.

I MEAN, I AM ALWAYS INTERESTED TO LOOK AT THE OCCUPANCY RATE OF THE SMALL HOUSES SORT OF ENVIRONMENT THAT THEY OPENED AND IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

I MEAN, NONE OF THESE THINGS.

THE HOMELESS PROBLEM DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FIXED BY PROVIDING PEOPLE WITH A PLACE TO GO.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY.

BUT IT DOESN'T SEEM TO WORK.

I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE SEEM TO BE OPENING THEM UP.

WE TRIED GIBSON.

WE TRIED THE SMALL HOMES THING AND I DON'T THINK WE ARE REALLY GETTING TO THE ROOT.

I DON'T REMEMBER HOMELESS PEOPLE WHEN I WAS A KID.

GRANTED THAT WAS 40 YEARS AGO BUT THIS PROBLEM IS ONGOING.

I THINK IT IS AN ECONOMIC PROBLEM, I UNDERSTAND IT IS A DRUG PROBLEM AND ALCOHOL PROBLEM BUT WE HAVE BEEN REALLY LOUSY BOTH AS A CITY AND STATE AND AS A COUNTRY IN SOLVING THIS PROBLEM.

>> Gene: WE HAVE BEEN AT THIS DEBATE OR SIX MONTHS.

LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW I SAT DOWN WITH MAYOR KELLER AND ASK ABOUT THE ISSUE AND HE POINTED TO THE GATEWAY CENTER AS THE LONG-TERM SESSION AND FIRST PHASE SET TO OPEN THIS APRIL, THAT FACILITY WILL HAVE 100 BEDS AND THAT WILL HAVE MANY OTHER RESOURCES BUT IS THAT ENOUGH TO MAKE A DENT IN WHAT DAVE IS TALKING ABOUT HERE.

>> Laura: I THINK IT IS A START.

YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE.

I MEAN, I THINK YOU MENTIONED THAT SOME OF THE COUNCILORS FELT THEIR DECISION WAS RUSHED TO OPEN THIS, BUT I ALSO THINK YOU KNOW THERE IS A BIT -- THERE IS A NEED.

RIGHT.

ESPECIALLY ON THE TEMPORARY FRONT THAT THEY HAD TO OPEN THIS WEEK BECAUSE OF THE TEMPERATURES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SOME PRETTY COLD NIGHTS AND JUST PEOPLE CAN EASILY DIE OUT THERE FROM THAT AND WHATEVER ELSE IS GOING ON.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A SHELTER THAT IS STABLE AND AVAILABLE AND OPEN EVEN IF SOME OF THE DETAILS INSIDE HAVE NOT BEEN FULLY WORKED OUT BUT I DO THINK THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE WHAT THEY COULD TO GIVE MORE INFORMATION TO RESIDENTS.

I THINK THEY ARE GOING TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THIS, UNDERSTANDABLE, THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS LOOKS LIKE FOR INTAKE AND WHAT KIND OF SERVICES THERE ARE AND WHAT SECURITY THERE IS GOING TO BE.

I THINK IT IS A NATURAL CONCERN FOR FOLKS IN THAT AREA.

BUT WE HAVE A CITY-WIDE CRISIS.

WE SEE A LOT OF HOMELESS IN ALL PARTS OF THE CITY AND IT IS JUST SOMETHING THAT IS OF MIND FOR ALMOST EVERY CITIZEN OF ALBUQUERQUE.

>> Gene: NO PART OF TOWN THAT IS NOT DEALING WITH THIS.

DANIEL, THREE NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS NEAR THE PLANNED GATEWAY CENTER -- I LOST MY PLACE HERE -- HAVE DECLINED TO SIGN A GOOD NEIGHBOR AGREEMENT.

INTERESTING.

SAYING IT DID NOT ADDRESS SOME OF THEIR CHIEF CONCERNS SO SHOULD NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS AND OTHER COMMUNITY GROUPS BE ABLE TO REFUSE SAFE OUTDOOR SPACES AND SHELTERS.

WHAT IS THE MIDDLE GROUND HERE?

>> Dan: I MEAN, GUYS THERE IS NOT A MIDDLE GROUND.

WE HAVE THIS HUGE HOMELESS PROBLEM IN ALBUQUERQUE THAT SEEMS TO BE GROWING.

PEOPLE SEEM TO BE IGNORING THE CAUSES THAT THEY JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THE AFFECT OF IT, RIGHT.

YES, PEOPLE, AS YOU KNOW, GENE EVERYBODY, YOU HAVE INVESTED IN A HOME, YOU HAVE GOT A HOME, A NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU RAISE YOUR FAMILY.

AND YOU MOVE SHELTERS IN THERE, ESPECIALLY THE GOVERNMENT RUN ONES, THEY MOVE IN THERE AND THEY DON'T BECOME SAFE SPACES.

IT IS REALLY AN OXYMORON RIGHT?

SAFE SPACES.

YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE DOWNTOWN IN THE PARKS WHERE THE HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS ARE SET UP, THEY ARE NOT SAFE SPACES.

IT IS NOT A SPACE TO DO LAUNDRY.

IT IS NOT A SAFE SPACE TO GO SEE SOMEBODY.

IT IS NOT A SAFE PLACE TO GO HANG OUT.

YOU ARE NOW GOING TO TAKE THAT AND MOVE IT INTO SOME OF THESE NEIGHBORHOODS WHO HAVE SPENT TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS BUYING A HOME, INVESTING IN A HOME AND PAYING THEIR MORTGAGE AND SAY, BY THE WAY, HERE IS YOUR NEIGHBOR, AND, BY THE WAY, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

NOW, YOU DO HAVE A RIGHT IF SOMEBODY WANTED TO OPEN UP A GAS STATION NEXT DOOR TO YOU OR IF SOMEBODY TRIED TO OPEN A RESTAURANT OR SOMEONE TRIED TO GET A LIQUOR LICENSE.

IF SOMEBODY IS TRYING TO GO TO THE PRIVATE SECTOR AND DO A BUSINESS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU HAVE ALL THE SAME RULES, BUT IF THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO COME IN AND COMMANDEER YOUR PROPERTY VALUES BY SAYING, LISTEN, WE HAVE SOLVED THIS PROBLEM.

WHAT I THINK SHOULD HAPPEN, AND I AM NOT SAYING THIS TO BE FUNNY EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE GOING TO LAUGH, I MEAN IT.

WHY DON'T THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM THIS WAY, START AT THEIR OWN HOUSE?

WHY DOESN'T THE MAYOR MOVE ONE OF THESE INTO HIS OWN COMMUNITY?

WHY DOESN'T CITY COUNCILORS IN FAVOR OF IT START IN THEIR BACK YARD?

WHY DON'T THEY SAY WE ARE GOING TO PUT IT IN THE PARK IN MY DISTRICT WHERE I LIVE AND LET THEIR CONSTITUENTS SEE IT.

BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT.

THEY ALWAYS WANT TO PUT IT IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY AND THEY ALWAYS WANT TO -- THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

THEY JUDGE CHARITY BY WHAT THEY ARE WILLING TO DO WITH OTHER PEOPLE -- >> Gene: LET ME ASK YOU SOMETHING ABOUT, DANIEL, ABOUT THIS AS WELL.

INTERESTING LITTLE ANECDOTE.

SIESTA HILLS PRESIDENT, RACHEL BACA, WANTS A FACILITY CAPACITY LIMIT, THAT IS INTERESTING.

A GUARANTEE THE CITY WILL BAN SANCTIONED HOMELESS ENCAMPMENTS IN THE VICINITY.

THAT IS ANOTHER INTERESTING REQUEST, BUT THIS ONE MAKES IT VERY INTERESTING.

SHE WANTS LANGUAGE MAKING CLEAR THE GATEWAY WILL NOT FUNCTION AS A WALK-UP MEAL SITE AND NONE OF THOSE TERMS ARE INCLUDED IN THE AGREEMENT.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET NEIGHBORHOODS IN A NEGOTIATION.

IS THAT APPROPRIATE?

>> Dan: SO THEY START OFF BY SAYING, WHAT I AM HEARING IN THAT EXCHANGE, IS THEY KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.

HEY, LISTEN, WE WANT TO PUT PEOPLE UP IN THE NIGHT TO KEEP THEM FROM FREEZING, WHICH IS HONORABLE AND ADMIRABLE.

NOBODY IS IN FAVOR OF PEOPLE DYING ON THE STREETS BUT PEOPLE HAVE LEARNED THAT IS NOT WHAT IT MEANS.

WHAT IT MEANS IS WE PUT THEM UP FOR A NIGHT, FEED THEM, BATHE THEM AND PROVIDE SERVICES.

AND NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, IT IS NOT A ONE-NIGHT SHELTER.

IT IS A 24/7, 365 SHELTER, NOW THAT PEOPLE ARE STAYING THERE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE 200 PEOPLE SHOW UP THERE ALL DAY TO GET 50'S BEDS.

AND THEY WANT TO HAVE CONSISTENCY FOR THEIR OWN SAFETY AROUND THEM AND THEIR FAMILY BECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY IN NEW MEXICO, ESPECIALLY IN ALBUQUERQUE, WE NOT ONLY -- GENE, WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT THIS AD NAUSEAM, WE NOT ONLY HAVE A HOMELESS PROBLEM, WE HAVE A MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM.

SO WHEN YOU START MOVING, HOMELESS PEOPLE WITH THE ENORMOUS MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES, PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE CONCERNED.

AND, AGAIN, I FALL BACK ON OUR ELECTED OFFICIALS.

THEY SEEM TO BE WILLING TO TAKE THESE EXPERIMENTS TO OTHER PEOPLE'S HOMES.

WHY DON'T THEY START AT HOME.

THEY SAY CHARITY STARTS AT HOME.

>> Gene: LAWYER, I HAVE GOT -- THE GATEWAY SHELTER IS EXPECTED TO HAVE MORE THAN 330 BEDS BY SUMMER OF 2025.

SO, I JUST WANT TO KIND OF TIE THAT DOWN WITH DAN.

IS THERE ANY WAY TO GET COUNCIL, THE MAYOR, NEIGHBORHOOD ASSOCIATIONS, EVERYBODY TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON THIS?

IS THIS EVEN DOABLE AT SOME LEVEL OR WE HAVE TO SUFFER THESE ENCAMPMENTS IN THE FAR EDGES OF THE CITY AND NOT REALLY THINK ABOUT IT HERE IN THE INTERIOR PART OF IT?

>> Laura: I HAVE TO STAY OPTIMISTIC ON THIS ONE.

I THINK EVERYBODY ASSUMES GOOD INTENT.

ABSOLUTELY, I THINK THERE IS A POSSIBILITY TO COME TO AN AGREEMENT BUT I THINK PEOPLE NEED TO COME IN WILLING TO MAKE COMPROMISES, WILLING TO MEET THE OTHER SIDE IN THE MIDDLE ABOUT SOME OF THIS.

AND KEEP IN MIND THE LARGER ISSUE, LIKE, YES, A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE HAVE -- THERE IS SOME PEOPLE WHO JUST SIMPLY DON'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO EVEN THINK ABOUT WHAT LIVING IN A HOME OR IN AN APARTMENT IS LIKE.

THEY JUST DON'T WANT TO BE IN A SITUATION LIKE THAT.

THERE IS ACTUALLY PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE TO BE HOMELESS AND LIVE ON THE STREETS BUT I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE MAJORITY.

THERE IS AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE OTHER REASONS WHY THEY ARE HOMELESS.

>> Gene: THAT IS RIGHT.

THE NEWLY HOMELESS, PARENTS LIVING IN THE CAR WITH THEIR CHILD.

THERE IS A LOT OF INCENTIVE TO GET A ROOF OVER YOUR HEAD.

>> Laura: SO I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO INCLUDE SOME SORT OF CASE MANAGER PROCESS AND FOLLOW-UP SO THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY START TO CONNECT THOSE FOLKS WITH THE RIGHT SERVICES AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO REDUCE THIS PROBLEM, NOT JUST PROVIDE SORT OF THE BANDAID APPROACH WHERE, YES, YOU HAVE A SHELTER BUT NO OPPORTUNITY FOR MOVEMENT OUT OF THE SHELTER.

>> Dan: I THINK THESE FOLKS WOULD BE ON BOARD IF THERE WAS A LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

RIGHT?

I AGREE WITH LAURA, EVERYBODY PLAYS THIS LIKE, OH, PEOPLE LIKE ME DON'T CARE ABOUT HOMELESS PEOPLE.

I DO.

THERE HAS TO BE A LEVEL OF ACCOUNTABILITY.

WE ARE GOING TO GIVE YOU A PLACE TO LIVE, WE ARE GOING TO FEED YOU, NO DRUGS, RIGHT?

YOU DON'T GET TO DRINK ALCOHOL.

IF YOU CAN'T LIVE BY THOSE RULES, THAT ENDANGERS EVERYBODY ELSE.

WE DON'T DO THAT, RIGHT?

WE BUILD THESE 300-PERSON FACILITIES, IT'S KATIE BAR THE DOOR, AND THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

>> Gene: I GOT TO THANK YOU AND THE LINE PANEL AS ALWAYS THIS WEEK.

BE SURE TO LET US KNOW WHAT DAN SAID AND EVERYBODY ELSE ON THE TOPIC, ON OUR FACEBOOK, TWITTER OR INSTAGRAM PAGES.

AND CATCH ANY OF THE EPISODES YOU MAY HAVE MISSED ON THE PBS VIDEO APP OR YOUR ROKU OR SMART TV.

>> Gene: THE THIRD TUESDAY OF JANUARY IS JUST AROUND THE CORNER AND THAT MEANS OUR LEGISLATURE BEGINS ITS 60-DAY LONG VERSION.

I LEAN INTO THAT WORD LONG HERE WITHOUT IRONY BECAUSE IT SEEMS WE ARE FINALLY GETTING TRACTION ON RECONFIGURING THAT WORD LONG.

SIMPLY PUT LONG IS A LAUGHABLE MISNOMER AS IT STANDS NOW.

WE KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER NETS DOWN TO ABOUT 10 TO 15 DAYS WORTH OF WHAT ACTUALLY SEEMS LIKE ACTUAL WORK.

LOTS OF PUNTING THE FOOTBALL UNTIL NEXT TIME BY OUR LEGISLATURE BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE SOMETHING IN THE AIR THIS GO ROUND, SOMETHING THAT FEELS LIKE CHANGE.

FREQUENT LINE PANELISTS MERRITT ALLEN HAS BEEN TRACKING PREFILED BILLS AND THERE IS A RATHER FASCINATING SET OF IDEAS FROM INDEPENDENT REDISTRICTING, TO OPEN PRIMARIES, TO BALLOT ACCESS AND EVEN RANK CHOICE VOTING FOR STATE-WIDE RACES.

THAT IS INTERESTING.

ALL WILL BE UNDER CONSIDERATION.

NOW, THIS IS A PROCESS AND FIRST AND FOREMOST MY THANKS TO ELECTED FOLKS LEANING INTO CHANGE.

IT IS GOING TO BE A DIFFICULT PERIOD, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

BUT WE ARE NOT JUST BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL WE ARE NEARLY BEHIND THE ENTIRE RACK OF BALLS AND WE NEED SOME BOLD MOVES NOW.

WE'LL SEE HOW IT ALL PLAYS OUT IN COMMITTEE WITH FINGERS CROSSES.

THANKS AGAIN FOR JOINING US AND STAYING INFORMED AND ENGAGED.

SEE YOU AGAIN NEXT WEEK, IN FOCUS.